I telephoned the number of Fred Wesley’s management agency printed in the sleeve notes of the 'New Friends' album. This turned out to be his ex-wife. She was extremely helpful in my quest for an interview and also sent me a great deal of useful information on him including an old resume of his. She gave me his e-mail address and I made contact with him. He was very honoured and flattered to be the subject of my dissertation. He invited me and my girlfriend to see him play at the Roadhouse in Covent Garden and to meet with him after the gig and we arranged a date to do the interview. I interviewed him over the telephone on Thursday 7 May 1998. He was rehang in his hotel room during a US tour with Maceo Parker.

T : Who were your musical influences ?

FW : When I first heard J.J. Johnson play the trombone, that's the way I wanted to play. When I started out listening to jazz, J.J. was the best trombone player that I heard and I liked the best.

T : Do you play any other instruments regularly ?

FW :No. I use the piano to arrange and compose. I can tap around on the drums and pluck around on the bass. Trombone is my only instrument.

T : In an interview you did for the 'Wire' magazine (Sept. '90) you talked frankly about your technical limitations that would suggest that you were self taught.Is this the case ?

FW : For the most part yes I was. I didn't have any real formal training on the trombone until I was in the Army. Then that was only about three months. Basically I am self taught. I grew up listening to other people play and tried to emulate the way they play. Mostly saxophone players, guitar players and trumpet players.

T : Do you teach ?

FW : No. I'm not really good at it. I have tried to do some workshops and clinics and have had some success at it but it's not something that I am comfortable doing. In the future I might be able to get more comfortable doing it because it's less taxing on your body. As you know, as you age your body needs to do things that don't require as much energy.

T : In your formative years which aspects of your playing did you consider most important and what did you concentrate on ?

FW : Jazz solos. Ad fibbing. That was my strong suit. Most of the gigs I got, I got because I could ad lib. I wasn't a really fast reader but being to play jazz solos and funk solos kept me on most of my gigs.

T : Did / do you transcribe other peoples or even your own solos ?

FW : Not really no. Sometimes I might hear someone play a lick that I like and I may try and copy it but as far as exactly writing it down, no I never do that.

T : You have quite a distinctive sound. Did you work hard on this ?

FW : it's just something that happened because, like I said, I'm self taught and I was trying to emulate a lot of saxophone players and trumpet players playing licks and funk players and even guitar players. So my style kinda developed out of the things that I was playing. I was playing in a lot of blues bands and a lot of R'n'B bands and a lot of jazz bands and a lot of times I had to play the parts of the vocals. I played in a band were we used to play a tune called 'Stop In The Name Of Love' and I played the background vocal parts. So my style kinds developed out of playing things that needed to be played in whatever situation I was in.

T : In most of the publicity photos of yourself you are playing a bass trombone. Have you always played a bass and if not what prompted you to change?

FW : It's not a bass trombone it's just a large bore tenor trombone with an F attachment. I changed to the F attachment trombone basically because I wanted a larger sound. When I was playing all the years with James Brown I played a regular tenor trombone. But I wanted to get a more rich, heavier sound so I switched to the larger bore and the F attachment came along with it. I subsequently learned how to use the attachment instead of using the sixth and seventh positions. It kinda grew out of my want to make a bigger sound. And then I liked the way the trombone looked a lot better. It had a jazzier look to it. Simple as that.

T : Rumour has it at my college, here in Leeds, that some of your agility on the bass trombone is achieved with deft use of the trigger, (although i did not see this at last Sunday is gig) Is this true',

FW : Yes I do. it's kinds difficult to go way out to seventh and sixth positions and with the trigger you don't have to do that. If you co-ordinate that with your slide you can move around a little faster. Yes, it does help the agility. that's a good way to put it.

T: Do you still practise routinely ? If so how much ?

FW : Not nearly enough. I keep the horn in front of me at all times. I do practise scales and chords but not nearly as much as I should. It's difficult for me to practise. I don't have the discipline to really concentrate on practising. Most of my stuff- comes from actual playing and gigs.

T : How has your practice regime altered over the years ?

FW : When I was with James Brown I hardly practised at all because we worked just about every night and I needed the time between gigs to rest my lip. But during he eighties I hardly practised at ail because most of my work was arranging and producing. I really got into serious strife in the late eighties and early nineties when I realised in order to play jazz you have to be up on your chops on the trombone. So thatis when I really seriously started to practise and live tried to continue that till now. But km doing so many other things a lot of the time I don't have the time to do it or the discipline to make myself do it. Late eighties early nineties that is when I seriously started to practice on the trombone.

T : Do you have periods of self doubt about your playing ?

FW : Oh yes, many times. As I said, in the late eighties I realised I did not have the real to play the kind of jazz I wanted to play. But it didn't discourage me to the point where I was depressed. It just made me realise that in order to play real good you have to practise really hard. I understand that and I did do a pretty good jazz album during that time. A straight ahead bebop album with just a rhythm section [La Bossa Meets Funk / To Someone]. I had tried to do the album before but not being up on my instrument meant it didn't happen.

T : Do you still push yourself to learn new things or have you reached a point where you are content with your ability ?

FW : On the trombone I just try to keep sharp and stay as strong as possible. New things come more with producing records and writing songs. That's were I try to advance my musical ability. More so than playing the trombone. With the trombone, my style is pretty much set the way it is. I just try to stay strong and stay sharp and to continue the style as strong as possible.

T : When you are soloing on jabs tunes are you consciously thinking of what different scales you can play over the chord progression ?

FW : Sort of. Not really. Sometimes I just go with the flow of the music. You have to know those specific scales but that's usually already in your brain and under your fingers and under you lip. At the time you start playing you just kinda let it flow. When you start blowing, those chords should be in your ear by now. If you practise them really diligently when you're learning the song then when you actually play it you don't have to think about it. You just flow through the changes.

T : Do the same sort of thought processes occur if you are playing over a one or two chord vamp on a funk track ?

FW : Yeah well it's even more difficult to make it more interesting when you only have a one or two chord vamp. You have to take it rhythmically. The harmonic is basically the same. It's more difficult to make it sound interesting. That's why my style gets to be more rhythmical when there's just the one chord vamp.

T : The horn arrangements on the intro to Bootsy's 'Hollywood Squares' and 'Peace Fugue' use fairly classical harmonies. Did you have any major influences with regards your arranging ?

FW : Well, I was basically taught arranging by Dave Matthews and Pee Wee Ellis and I have to say that I do think about what they would do. Even some other arrangers like John Clayton and7 I do consider those. Peace Fugue was just a gift from God. It didn't have any basis on anything I had learned. It just came out of the sky so to speak. But in a lot of the arrangements I try to create some sound that I've heard before. But in tunes like 'Peace Fugue' and 'For The Elders'- those things kinda fall out of the sky. I just go with what's there in my brain.

T : Have you done any straight (classical) playing ?

FW : Very little. In fact, about two months ago I did a classical piece with the pianist at my church. We vowed to do more of that kind of thing. She played accompaniment for me and it was very interesting. I can do that but it takes another kind of dedication and another kind of discipline which I admit that I don't have much of. It's very interesting and it's very helpful to keep your chops strong too. I'm gonna try and do more in the future.

T : How did your leadership of the JB home and the various incarnations since come about ?

FW : Well, James was in a position where he needed a band leader. Pee Wee had left. Maceo had left. He just felt like I was the one qualified to lead the band and he had a new band. Bootsy had just left so I was the one next in line so to speak. I became the leader and part of my reward, I must say, for being leader was to have my name in front of the J.B.'s. Fred Wesley and the J.B.'s. The horn arrangements Mom James Brown through P-Funk to the Horny Horns have got progressively more complex.

T : Is this a reflection of your developing arranging abilities or is it that with each new band you have been given more freedom to create ?

FW : Well, I try not to repeat myself. That's number one. I try to develop some sounds with the horns. Usually we used four to six horns and I just tried to do as many different things with that combination of horns that I could. That's why it gets more complicated I guess. I'm trying not to repeat what I've already done before.

T : What percentage of the P-Funk tunes came about as a result of ideas during jam sessions as opposed to one person having a particular idea ?

FW : A very small percentage of P-Funk tunes came about just from jamming. Most of those things I actually wrote down myself. As opposed to the James Brown stuff. That came from putting things together on the spot as you record.

T : Are there any tunes or horn arrangements that you have written that are particularly special to you ?

FW : There's a tune going around now, a re-release on a compilation, called Lickedy Split and that's one of my favourites. I like it a lot. It's one of those sounds. I try to put things rhythmically. I try to do things harmonically and then sometimes I just try to make the horns make a sound. And this particular arrangement was based on a sound that the hams get with this particular four spacing of the voicing of the notes. That's one of my favourites.

T : There is very little in the way of information / sleeve notes on your solo albums and on most of the JB Horns albums. Was this a conscious decision ?

FW : That's kinda my fault. In the case of James Brown we just recorded and a lotta times no credit was given on the albums. I don't know for what reason. Maybe he just didn't want to take the time to do it. But it was just not done in those days. Unfortunately, if James didn't put the names on the record it's a mystery as to who actually played on it sometimes. Some of us, though, we have to lean back on our memories now to figure out who played what on what record.

T : In an interview that George Clinton did, he said that James Brown used to push the members of the horn section, in particular you and Maceo, so hard that your lips bled. He also said that you were kinds grateful because you learnt a lot as a result. Was this the case and have you pushed yourself to the same degree since ?

FW : The James Brown show was so demanding. If you noticed he was the hardest working person on stage and so naturally everybody else on stage had to come up to what he was doing or at least attempt to come up. If I had an injury, sometimes you'd get a blister on you lip that might split, you just didn't feel like you could just quit or walk away. You look out front and you see the man out there sweating and carrying on and dropping to his knees, that must hurt pretty bad, you just followed suit. He's our leader and he drove himself really hard so we just felt obligated, I know I did and I can't speak for everyone but I'm sure everyone did. We just felt that we had to drive it as hard and as long as he drove. There was one time when my lip was bleeding, one time at the Apollo, I had a blister, blood was gushing out of my lip but I didn't want to let him down or the other members of the horn section so I had to continue to play my part.

T: Would you consider yourself a jazz trombonist who plays funk or a funk trombonist who plays jam?

FW : That used to be a hard question. But I've come to a decision now and I 'd say I have a pretty good answer for it. I am a trombone player who plays whatever it is necessary to play at the time. Sometimes I play jazz funky and sometimes I play funk jazzy. It's always me playing whatever I play. It's a Fred Wesley style. A combination of jazz and funk.

T : Whom would you consider as your contemporaries in the held of funk trombone playing ?

T : Which of today's trombonists regardless of style do you admire most and why ?

FW : There's a new trombonist named Andre Hayward. I like him a lot. I've never met him but I've heard him play and he has a very beautiful style. I think Steve Turre might be the most "uent jazz trombone player. I love Clifford Adams. He plays beautiful trombone. There's a lot of trombone players out there I can't even think of their names right now that play real good. But those three come to mind immediately. There's a lot of young boys coming up that can really play the trombone.

T : What would you consider as the most important decisive moment in your musical career ?

FW : Well I guess I would have to say leaving James Brown and doing something different. I could have stayed with James Brown till now but I Just had a need to do something different. That type of thinking has followed throughout my career. That was the hrst time I left a so-called good thing to go to something else. I have always gone to a certain point in something am then left it to go to something else. I'm not easily bored but when I have done all I can do in situation then I always seek to do something different. The decision to leave James Brown to go to ParliaFunkadelic was the first time I ever made a conscious decision to elevate my musical career to take it somewhere else. That has followed throughout. I left P-Funk to do Count Basie Count Basie to arrange and produce. I stopped that to go a step back into be-loop. I've always reached for something different.

T : Looking at your extensive discography you seem to have had a quiet period during the eighties. What were you doing during this timed ?

FW : It was quiet as a soloist but I was doing a lot of arranaina for other people. I was in LA and I did arranging and producing a lot of different bands and artists. I didn't get my name out front in the eighties as I did in the seventies but I was still very busy.

T : What are your plans for the future ?

FW : To continue looking for something new and different. My new album 'Full Circle - From Bebop to Hiphop' is like a culmination of all I've done in the past. I've already started working on the next album on the concept that it will also employ all the things that I've reamed and the influences I've gained in the past. It's going to concentrate on African influence. You can never turn your back on Africa. I want to continue to do concept albums and also I'm trying to write now. I've written a book called 'Hit Me Fred - Recollections of a style man ' I'd like to continue writing and also composing music and doing jazz funk, or however you want to categorise it, albums in the future.