by Lee Hildebrand and Henry Kaiser
Guitar Player April ' 84.

You haven't gotten the recognition that’s due you. Does that hurt?

Yeah, it hurts. There's other things I could be into, like recording with different groups if they really knew who I was. There’s so many guitar players who patterned their style off of my style since the early'60s. I joined up with James Brown in '65. My first recording with Brown was "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag," and somehow or'nother those licks that I hit in there were ringing out and a lot of guitar players are using them nowadays. One way or the other they con­nect it up‑a little bit of their style and a little bit of my style‑which I borrowed a few styles from some of the guitar players coming up myself, like Pete Lewis with Johnny Otis. Wayne Bennett [guitar player with Bobby Blue Bland and others] was one of my idols. You know, it all started with B.B. King.

You've said that part of the reason you haven't been recognized is that James hasn’t put your name on any of the albums.

That's true. Not only my name, but he just don't give none of his musicians credit. I really cant say why.

Did you ever ask him?

I never did. That was one of his policies. I'm only one man. Most of the albums that's being recorded nowadays, you look on the back and you can see whos playing what '

Recently he has been giving you and saxophonist St. Clair Pinckney solos and calling out your names. Is that new?

Yes. It's something new over the last four or five years, I guess. It used to be Maceo, maybe occasionally St. Clair. Here recently he's been calling out my name. He gave me a little build‑up on the live album we did in Japan, which was very nice [Livel Hot On The One, a 1980 release that's already out of print].

When he bows, he has the bandbow, too. Is that something new?

Yes. He began to show his band off a little bit more than he used to. Within the last four or five years‑it used to be that he would take all the glory, but now he's kind of sharing it with his fellow men. We deserve it; we work so hard. We understand him so well his every move. We work together as a team.

When you first started playing guitar back in the late '40s, what were some of the sounds that you started to pick up on?

I used to play around with the T‑Bone Walker style ' . Back during the time I was trying to learn, T‑Bone was the most popular guitar player there was. He was the first guy I started listening to, and Muddy Waters and al] those guys like that.

Did you get Io see any guitar players who passed through Oklahoma?

I saw Wayne Bennett. He was playing with [pianist] Amos Milburn at the time. And there was a guitar player with Roy Milton at the time. Ijust didn't get around to seeing too many concerts back then. Being at that age, I wasn't really allowed to go to many of those places. As the years progressed, when I was 15 or 16, I was able to slip into a few.

When did you get an electric guitar?

I went to Wichita, and worked around there for a little while. I had a sister who lived there and ljust wanted to get away. I bought an electric guitar shortly after that. I was about 16. Where I was living was a small city, and Wichita was a little bit bigger, so in order to get somewhere you had to leave and go somewhere where you might be heard. I ended up in Tulsa, Oklahoma. I left there with a group and went to California and that's really how I started into my music.

After you went to Los Angeles in 1955 with Jimmy Wilson and the band broke up, what happened?

I had to mess around, band to band, club to club. It was rough, man, for quite a few years. I got with Chuck Higgins in '55. "Pachuko Hop" was going strong. I played with him. for a couple of years. I was on quite a few things with Chuck. Rock and roll that was his music. We went to a few spots in Arizona and went all the way down to Alabama on a tour with Pee Wee Crayton.

How did your contract with Fédéral Records come about?

Ralph Bass happened to be at one of the jobs where I was playing and decided that he wanted to produce a thing on me and the band. I had about four or five tunes. Unfortunately, they didn't go anywhere. Shortly after I left Chuck Higgins, I formed a band for two or three months and then along came Ralph. As soon as I started recording for Federal, Johnny Otis came along and wanted me to play with him. I just kind of forgot about recording. I was too satisfied with just being with him, which was very good at that time.

What records did you make with him?

"Willie And The Hand Jive "was one of the big ones. I put the guitar work on it. And Marie Adams"'Ma, He's Makin'Eyes At Me."Quite afew things withJohnny Otis, but "Willie And The H and Jive" was the biggest. I was trying to do a thing with Federal and working with Johnny at the same time.

The guitar breaks on your Fédéral recording of "It Hurts Me Too "are reminiscent of the type of breaks Johnny Guitar Watson was doing at the time.

Johnny and I were coming up in music at about the same time. He had maybe a two or three year head start on me. He was from Texas, and he had come to LA and established himself already. I didn't really try to pattern my style from him at all. I was really hot on Pete Lewis. I took Pete's place with Johnny Otis. I guess he just got tired of traveling. He’d been with Johnny since around '49.

How did you gel the idea for the" Willie And Me Hand Jive "rhythm guitar part?

I guess it was a few licks from Bo Diddley. Throughout the recording business, different artists always steai a few licks from different artists to make their own thing happen. Everybody is borrowing licks now, one way or another.

What was the next step in your career after leaving Johnny Otis?

I formed a band for four or five years. It was very good, a real popular band around Los Angeles. I would always back up guys like B.B., Buddy Ace, Lowell Fulson, TBone. B. B. would come to LA without his band sometimes, and bc would call me. I was working with nine pieces at that time. We didn't record, though.

Did you go oui on the road?

Just right around California. Occasionally I would go up around Phoenix. And I didn't even come as far north as San Francisco. There was plenty of work to do right in Los Angeles.

Was James Brown the next thing that happened?

James Brown was the next thing. He happened to come to LA one Christmas, and, his guitar player, Les Buie, decided that he wasn't going any further. He was on most of the early recordings like "Try Me," "I Don't Mind" and some other tunes. I was recommended for the job through a friend who was working with James Brown‑L.D. Williams. We used to work together. He was in my band before he left and went with James Brown for a couple of years.

Did you have to audition?

I didn't have to audition. I just started out, and I went on the stage the first night, It was kind of frightening. His music is very swift; you have to be thinking fast. There’s no time for no mistakes up there.

 What did he say to you afterwards?

He told me I'd done a great job for the first night. I had played behind him once before, I think when he first came out with "Please, Please, Please." I was with Johnny Otis at that time, and he happened to come to LA. Johnny Otis had a talent show going every Wednesday night at the Oasis Club, and James came by as a special guest. I think I played "Try Me" behind him.

How did you prepare for the first night? Did you already know the tunes?

I already knew his bit tunes. Of course, there were a lot of in‑between tunes that he was doing to make up a concert that I wasn’t very familiar with.

How did you make it through the tunes you didn’t know? Was somebody feeding you the changes?

I’d stand next to the organ player, and he'd fill me in on the changes. It went pretty smooth for the first night. It was kind of frightening. I’ll never forget it.

So you've been with him ever since, except when you left with Maceo And All The Kings Men?

In '70 I stayed gone for two years.

Were you working all the time during those two years?

AU the time. Every night of the week we wanted to work. The pay was about the same. I think the main reason we failed was because of the lack of good, sound management like you gotta have in any group. You can't have some guy in the band trying to go out and make deals for you if he ain't got the time.

How did you gel back your job with James Brown?

Well, I guess I was missed some terrible.

Did he ask you, or did you ask him?

I asked him, to be frank, because I didn’t really communicate with him at all throughout the two years up until I decided Id had it with the King's Men. I decided to go and chat with him a little bit. I think I could have always come back anytime I wanted, any hour, any day. The King's Men was something that we tried to do that didn’t come off as planned, but we gave it a hell of a try.

How are James Browns tunes worked out for recording sessions?

Right there on the spot in the studio.

Do you spend time on them before going into the studio?

No. Mostly all of his bit records, he's thought up in his mind, as far as lyrics and a general idea of how he wants his rhythm to go. To put the tune together, it's not written or anything. You just get there and you strike a groove and you go from there. Sometimes you might work half a night on one tune until you get it the way you want it, and you record it, and most of the time it's a bit. I’ve been on 40 or 45 bit records with James.

Onstage, are you always watching and listening to him?

You must be alert with him.

Is it true that he fines musicians for mak­ing mistakes?

He used to, but he don't anymore. He used to take the fine money and throw a big party for the whole band. It's good in a sense, because it makes you tighten up on your axe. Like I say, playing with him there's no room for mistakes, because everything is swift. The key to the whole thing is to watch him. He is more or less like a director, singer, and dancer all in one.

Did you ever get fined?

Yeah, I paid a few. We had a good time, though. He’d throw a big party in New York when we'd have some time off. Nothing but a lot of fun. It made me sharp.

When did you start to develop that fast sixteenth note strumming that  you’re noted for?

I started developing that during the Johnny Otis days. It used to be that with so many different drummers some of them were good, but some were just lazy‑I used to just try to play and keep my rhythm going as much like a drum as I possibly could. So many times I had to just play guitar and drums all at the same time. You know what I mean? By keeping that rhythm going, it kind of keeps the drummer straight. Unless you're playing with a drummer year after year for so many years, it's very hard to get with a drummer and click it off. Throughout the years I've been with James, it's basically been the same drummer all the time.

"Papa's Got A Brand New Bag "seemed to be a turning point in James' style.

It was the turning point. His previous tunes were more or less a lot of blues and stuff like that. It was either slow or real, real fast. That was the first tune that he ever just dropped back with it and set it in the pocket. He came up with that style of laid‑back music, and that started a whole lot of differ­ent groups and musicians going in that vein. He started a new trend in music at that time, because the drummers had been either shuf­fling or playing his style of music. Melvin  Parker played drums on that, and shortly after that he added a second guitarist.

Who was the original second guitar player?

AI Kellum. We call him "Country." He was with us when we split and went as Maceo And The King's Men. We played together for two years without James Brown.

When you came back, who was the sec­ond guitar player?

"Cheese" Martin. He was on The Pay­back album. He was the second guitar player from'72 till about'76. Then I played guitar by myself for a long time after Martin left. James tried out a couple of guys, but they didn't fit in too good. The second guitar we've got now is Ronald Laster, and he's been with us about three years now.

How are the parts worked out between the two guitars?

During the recording, he would always say, "Jimmy, you play this, do your picking or whatever you feel to do in there," and the rhythm guitar would lay the chords, however the tune go. Most of James' tunes were good solid vamps, so mostly all he had to do was lock in on it with one pattern for a few minutes until it was over.

Do you play most of the single‑string picking while the other guitarist does the rhythm?

I do most of the single‑string picking, but it's a combination between both. I do rhythm and picking at the same time. You know what you're supposed to play and no more.

Do you still consider yourself a blues guitar player?

I wouldn't think blues. I think more or less rock and roll. I think of blues as B. B. King, Bobby Bland, and that style of music.

Do you miss doing that at all?

No. I try to stay with the trend‑what­ever's happening.

To get your sound, do you use a particu­lar string gauge?

I use a heavy‑gauge, about the heaviest you canfind‑.013 to.056. I break too many slinkies. Most of the guys are using those slinky strings now, but playing with Brown you got to have a tough string, because you don't have no room to stop and fix a string. I don't do a whole lot of string bending, so its very easy to play with a heavy gauge. I prefer a good Fender string. Fender strings are much cleaner, brighter‑clean for picking.

What type of chords do you play with Brown?

I use a lot of raised 9ths. He has a whole lot of 9ths in his music. As you’ll notice, there's not too many chord changes in most of his hit tunes. You lock in on one chord. Most of the musicians are doing that. They lock in on one basic chord and throw in what they call a bridge in between for a few bars, then fall right back and lock into that groove again. James started that kind of thing, and a lot of musicians are doing it even right now.

Do you always play with a pick?

Yes a triangle shaped pick. It's a medi­um gauge. It's not too limber and not real stiff. It's in between.

What type of guitar is that?

This is a "Stratafresher" [a Straighter, made in Japan by Fresher]. Everybody thinks it's a Stratocaster. It's got everything built into it that you would need on the floor, like the floor pedals and stuff like that. It's got sustain, the phase, and automatic wah-­wah built in. This is the only good guitar that's made like that. It works out very good. I been playing this a couple of years. It's very nice.

How many guitars do you have?

I got two. The other is known as the Black Widow. Acoustic didn’t make but one style of guitar like that, and they discon­tinued it. They was making amps, so they tried out making guitars for one year. [Ed. Note: The semi‑hollow Black Widow was marketed by Acoustic in 1972 and '73.] Sometimes I use both of them. I had been playing the Black Widow for about eight years, and before that I played Gibson.

What kind of guitar did you play on "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag"?

That was a Gibson hollow‑box ES‑1 75. That's one of the early‑style guitars. T‑Bone and Lowell Fulson had them at that time. It was hard to get used to playing anything else, but to play with James it wasn't sharp enough.

How do you set your action on the strings?

They're very low to the frets.

Do you prefer maple, rosewood, or ebony fingerboards?

I like the rosewood.

How do you set the controls on your guitar?

I play very high‑pitched [bright]. It depends on what we're playing. Brown calls for two or three different sounds. Sometime he requests a real brilliant sound, but if you're playing something like "Try Me," he would like to have a real mellow tone. You make your adjustments according to what tune you re playing.

Do you prefer the Straighters envelope follower to an actual wah‑wah pedal?

I think the footpedals are the best, to be frank. On some of the recordings in the past I've used a wah‑wah.

What amplifiers do you use?

Mostly Fenders. I’ve used Peaveys in the past. Right now we're using Fender Twin Reverbs. I put my volume on no more than 6. The treble is on about 8. I use about 5 on the bass, and the midrange about 6.

Do you practice a lot?

Yeah, quite a bit if I have the time. Play­ing at a place for a week at a time, you get a chance to practice quite a bit. Doing one ­nighters, you don't get a chance to practice too much.

How do you hold your pick?

Between my thumb and my pointing finger mostly. I use up‑ and down strokes. I rest my little finger on the pickguard and operate from the wrist. I don’t sling my whole arm. Everything is strictly from the wrist.

How has your technique changed over the years?

It hasn’t really changed too much. Play­ing for so many years with James‑the same things, the same arrangements, the same strokes‑kind of sets me behind quite a bit. For so many years I've been locked in with nothing but James Brown. I didn’t really get a chance to get out and play with other groups and other tunes and stuff like that. I intend to start changing my style just a little bit for '83.

Do you usually pick back by the bridge?

I pick near the bridge a lot to get a high ­pitched sound for the light chops that I'm known for. To get mellow, I go up towards the fingerboard.

Which records do you think best display your style?

"Big Payback" I think was one of the tunes, and of course "Papa's Got A Brand New Bag" started it all as far as my style with James Brown. I was on "Cold Sweat," "There Was A Time," "I Got The Feelin'," "Say It Loud‑I'm Black And I’m Proud," "Give It Up Or Turn It Loose," "Mother Popcorn." I wasn't on "Sex Machine," "Super Bad," "Hot Pants" or "Make It Funky"‑I was away. I was on "Talking Loud And Saying Nothing," "Honky Tonk," "Get On The Good Foot," and "Payback." There are very few that I wasn't on. When I came back we did The Payback album. That's about one of the biggest albums that he ever came up with.

Does James sometimes use studio musicians.?

Sometimes he brings in musicians to augment the band.

On what records did you take solos that you feel are significant?

I didn't take too many solos with Brown. It's saxophone mostly with him. I soloed on the instrumental "Popcorn" and on "Honky Tonk." That's about it.

Is the band working as much as it used to?

He's knocked off about 50 percent of his work since the last five or six years. I kind of like it better now, because it was rough work­ing every night. You‘d go out on 60 one night­ers with no nights off. I like to work a couple of weeks and have a week off. It gives you a chance to stretch out and relax a little bit. By me not being married, I just get in the wind and go to one of my best girls just mess around if I’ve got a couple of weeks off.

Do you ever do any playing outside the band?

No. Ain't been too many places to j am anyway. The last few years disco bas been the thing. It ain't like you can go to your nearest club and find a band. They've got the disco clubs, and they’ve got their disc jockeys. That hurt a lot of the musicians.

Have you ever done any sessions outside the band?

No. It's pretty rough to do extra sessions like that throughout the years I’ve been with him, because we were mostly on the road all the time. To get into a lot of sessions you have to be available at all times. Most sessions nowadays are done by studio bands. James Brown used his own band on most of his hits.

Do you get tired of playing the same songs all the time?

I really do, but James has had so many great tunes that it's almost impossible to say you cant play them anymore. He has to play all his hit records‑as many as he can in the run of a concert. There's a whole lot of music that I hear on the radio today that I want to get into.

Are you interested in doing sessions with other artists or in doing your own album?

Starting in'83, I intend to practice real hard and write some tunes and try to get an album out for myself, because there's so much music I would like to play other than just James Brown.

If you do your own album, will you do it while you’re off the road or do you plan on leaving Brown?

I think I’ll stick with James for the time being and see what happens.                     

Short Biography | Remembering Jimmy Nolen | Scores | Funky Stuff